Tag Archive: Seeing God


The Spirit gave me this little nugget while raking leaves today.  I was thinking how I’ve often heard the response from people who don’t believe you can see God ( while living at least ) that “you can’t see God and live”.  The verse they’re referencing is from Exodus.

But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” – Exodus 33:20

There’s a lot of arguments I’ve heard to go against this, but I had an interesting new one today.  As I had that thought, the Spirit said to me, “Doesn’t that sound familiar”.  I thought so too.  It sounded similar to the tree of knowledge.

But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” – Genesis 2:17

But wait, Adam and Eve didn’t actually die when they ate from the tree.  Yet that’s what God said.  We realize that the death was more spiritual.  Their physical boides continue on.

So what’s to keep us from applying the same principle.  When they ate the fruit, a part of them ( spiritual ) died.  So when we see God, a part of us ( old man ) can no longer live.  When you come face to face with God, something will die.  It could be you, but it could also be the flesh in you that dies and gives way to something greater.

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Ok, so I’ve had it for a bit, but finally started reading Gazing into Glory by Bruce Allen.  I knew of Bruce from the Lancaster prophetic conferences that he did with Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj and Neville Johnson for years, but never really listened much to him.  So I went back to look at the intro and realized this book was very relevant for my quest, so I started working through it slowly.  And slowly it was.  Like most good books, I could only go for about 10-15 minutes at a time before I had to stop and chew on things a while.  I actually haven’t finished, but I think I’m past the relevant parts for this post.

Guess what most of the book was about.  Seeing God, moving into the Spirit, working with God.  You know, all the stuff I’ve been pursuing.  Here’s some basic notes I took along the way.

  • First key – Passion.  Search with all your heart
  • Second key – Pure in heart shall see God
  • Third key – Obedience
  • A lot of talk about sanctifying our imagination.  Watch what you put into your mind, focus on Jesus.  ( Take every thought captive )
  • “Imagination is reality according to God”
  • “You’re as close to God as you want to be”
  • “Jesus is no respecter of persons”
  • Begin to practice His presence, focusing upon an image of Jesus in your imagination.  When you read the Bible, picture it.  When you’re longing for something from God, imagine it occurring.
  • Passion, passion, passion.

So if you’ve read much of my stuff, basically all the same stuff I’ve been taking from others.   Same things I’ve been trying to work toward.  This was a nice affirmation that I’m on the right track.  Almost everything he was saying, I could “nod” my head at as something I knew that I should be doing.  Sometimes it’s just nice to get another person’s input and realize you aren’t so far off.

The other encouraging thing was his story.  He worked his way into this.  He didn’t start with some big supernatural encounter as many others I’ve read.   He didn’t have a voice speak out to start talking.  No, he heard some of these truths and began to apply them in his life until he broke through.

It was a bit different than Neville or Sadhu, so that was good.  Followed more along the lines of Neville.  Use your imagination, sanctify it, focus it upon God.  If you’re passionate enough and stick with it, God will use that.

For me what I’ve taken is I’m falling short on two things here.  First the passion.  I get it for a couple weeks here or there, but don’t keep it strong like I should until I break through.  Second, focusing upon Jesus.  I’ll do it for a couple days, but it’s tough.  It’s tough to leave so much else out of your mind and focus to keep it upon the Lord.  Strange thing is when I do it, it continues to be more and more real.  Often I’ll stop and focus upon the Lord for a couple minutes and having this wave of love and peace flow through me, as if He’s right there ( which of course He is ).  It’s like each time I come back to these things, they’re a little more real.  If I can just hold firm this time.

 

 

 

 

I hope I don’t sound too much like a broken record.

What’s the saying that we’ve said so much… oh year, “Christianity is a relationship, not a religion”.  I used to say that so much myself.  That’s what makes us different.

So tell me, when’s the last time you heard the Lord speak to you?   When’s the last time you saw God?  And I don’t mean God spoke to me through a fortune cookie that made me think of some verse that helps me keep my head up during a tough time.  Not that it doesn’t happen, but really.  Who in their right mind would tell me that they have a relationship from their wife when all they say are little signs showing that she’s alive and maybe set a couple things out for them.  That’s just silly.

Yet we’re ok with that from God.  Where did we go wrong?  Well, right at the beginning.  I believe that when you’re saved, “poof” clean slate.  Now I’m not saying Jesus just appears to you then, you need to grow, but I suspect God speaks, and you hear.  You may treat it as your concious, as the Holy Spirit, or even silly thoughts in your head, but it happens.  What happens next?  We have a better idea, that’s what happens.  We know better, we don’t want to do something, we don’t feel like it, etc.  Any and every excuse.  Oh we got saved, but we didn’t hand it all over.  And with that refusal to hear, comes deafness, and we’re off.

The worst part is, we don’t realize it.  We don’t realize that we’ve silenced the God of the universe.  Instead we’re willing to tell ourselves that this is normal.  I read a book one time where this guy said that to know God’s will, he looks at the Bible, he prays, he asks others, and watches for doors to open ( something like that ).  When he puts it all together, he sees the general direction it’s all pointing and that’s which way he goes.  Really?  The best the God of the Universe can do is give us a head-nod in the right way.

How did this happen.  That we get so lost from the voice of our beloved, and then decide that it’s what happens.  I think it’s a combination of selfishness, guilt, and some other stuff.  First we want our way, then we don’t want to admit that maybe we’ve done it, so it’s easier to just accept that’s how it is.  Why fight for something if maybe it wasn’t for you.  Why pray for healing for others, maybe God doesn’t want to heal them.  Good excuse, and gets us out of a lot of answered questions.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me – John 10:27

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God – Matthew 5:8

“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?” 23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me. – John 14:18-24

We can hear God.  We can know God.

I remember Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj preaching about getting your eyes opened to see into the spiritual realm.  Then he made this comment that stuck with me.  “This is kindergarten christianity”.  This level that so few people get to, to actually see the Lord and hear Him speak, is just the entry level.

Can’t decide if that makes me extemely sad, or very motivated.  A little of both.

Don’t settle.

 

I believe I’ve posted something similar to this before from another message but I need to put this in, because I’ll do a 2nd post that very directly relates to this, but I want to split them up.

I listened to Sadhu talk in “The Mysteries of the Kingdom” conference that just happened up in spokane a couple months back.  HIs very first message he went into a sort of history of his, very fascinating.  How God called Him to salvation, his father especially turned against Him very severely, so he would actually sneak out to the church.  He began in a church with pretty incorrect doctrines, so that had him confused.  He next went to a church that was very charismatic, which was such a drastic change he had trouble accepting that.  He heard about the baptism of the spirit but didn’t know what to believe.  So being himself, the dogged I am going to figure this out, he started reading the gospel(and I assume some of new testament) over and over until he finally was fully convinced in the baptism of the spirit, at which point he began to pray earnestly for that.  Keep in mind that last phrase, “pray earnestly”.  And it came and he described that experience.

Somewhere in this period, God called him to the ministry.

After this he began to desire something deeper, and ran across the Kenneth Hagin book where he talked about praying the Ephesians prayers about the eyes of our understanding.  He picked that up and began to pray that.  As best I can tell, this period took him over 6 months, I know that’s not important, it will obviously change, but interesting to note for him.  Anyway, he began to pray earnestly, when he had a chance, he would step aside and pray those prayers.  He would push and push.  At some point he was given a word that it would come after XXX days.  He kept praying until he got the breakthrough and he was shown a vision of Jesus on the cross that lasted for about 20 minutes.  From this point on he says his Spritiual Eyes were opened.  I don’t exactly know what all that means, but there it is.

I don’t know exact timeframe, but from another message, I know he began waiting on God, I think it might have been before this.  When he was able to wait perfectly still for like 30 minutes or so, Jesus talked to him.  He knew it was Jesus because of the sound of his voice, like many waters, with music, etc.  Same as John described in Revelation.  He told him about his ministry.

After His eyes were opened, he wanted more.   He wasn’t content, so next he wanted more. I think there was one stage in between, but then he wanted to see Jesus.  So he kept earnestly praying, fasting, believing.  Then one day Jesus walked in and prayed with Him.  From that point on he says he sees Jesus.  Again, that was not enough, so he prayed to walk in the heavenlies.  That came.  Then he prayed for something(he didn’t elaborate), went through a period of focused prayer, and began to see saints in heaven, and to have them come and talk with him, teaching him about the word.

At each point, he reached for more.  He was continue to strive, to pray earnestly and often, to fast, to seek, knock and ask for something else.  There’s always another level.

This is what we don’t do.  It’s not important to us, partially because we don’t know it’s available, partially because we’re content with what we have.  If we wanted more, I believe God will send something our way that shows us a glimpse of it. That’s how Sadhu worked.  Early on different people would come through and show how there was more.  People, books, etc.

It’s day 4 of something new.

I think it hit when I got to the 4th message in Sadhu’s series about

A Rose for Jesus  He went through a brief history of coming to see the Lord.  In a nut shell, he came to the point he decided how could he be a child of God and not able to see Him.  So he began to set aside all his free moments he could get alone to come before the Lord in prayer crying to see Him.  His words are that only a bastard doesn’t see his father.  I prefer to say orphan, as Jesus said he would not leave us as orphans(John 14?).  Anyway, so he would pray in the morning, when he went to bed, and as often as he could get alone in between.
Then one day he had a vision of Jesus on the cross. From that point on he began to see visions, but it wasn’t enough.  So he kept praying, because he wasn’t hearing His voice or seeing Him.  Next the Lord Jesus spoke to Him audibly.  Then from that point on he could hear His voice.  And again, it wasn’t enough, so he continued.  Then one day Jesus walked in and prayed with Him.
Which each step, once he was let in, he could continue to walk in this.  He told everyone to stay hungry, to never be satisfied with what we have, because there is always more.  At each point he would dig and pursue something else.
This sort of pushed me over the edge.  I bring it to God whenever I can.  I want to know Him.  I am like an orphan that ran away, I don’t know my Fathers house, I don’t hear His voice, I don’t know His face.  Jesus said “I will not leave you as orphans, but I will come to you.  The world will no longer see me, but you will see me”, and “my sheep hear my voice”.
So I have become more hungry.  Neville talked about this, and now Sadhu has reiterated it.  Hunger, determination, and single-mindedness.  I want to develop that hunger and never let it go.  That I will not be content with what I have.  There is much more to this relationship, and I’m tired at living at such a low level.  We have become accostomed to so little, and I’m not ok with it anymore.
I have also had a little more success in several areas of sin in my life.  Now that I say that, I need to get on my knees and cry for mercy.  As soon as I think I stand, I tend to fall.  But I have walked in more holiness than usual, and it’s allowed me to continue to cry for more, to cry for a closer walk.  And cry I do.  I pour out my heart, my emotions.  Words are not enough, I pour out the anguish in my heart that I live such a menial christian life.  That I can talk about God “talking to me” when it’s such a small thing I have compared to these others.  I want to be a friend, I want to be the bride, I want to have that close personal relationship, to walk with God.
So of course what happens.  My alarm clock completely fails, our car battery dies, I get a horrible headache for most of a day,I fall really behind on work, etc.  The enemy doesn’t like it when we start to really try.

I’m not even sure these are all from the same place even though they’re part 1,2, and 3.  I actually tend to convert youtube videos to mp3 format so I can listen to them on my drive.  They don’t transition exactly between them, so I expect there are other people talking here or it’s over several days, but still, good stuff.  Looks like they were posted at the first of last year.  They seem pretty current since he spoke of the next 7 years of feasts being important to tabernacles.

At the end of part 2(I think), he discussed when we first saw Jesus.  He did a brief walk-through of how he came to that point.  I have listened to him talk about how others get there, but i like to hear how he did.  From the point he realized it was possible, he began to push for this, he said it was a little over a year until he got through.  It’s encouraging and not at the same time for me.  I’m up to 2 years of praying and seeking.  At the same point, I know I am much farther away than he or Sadhu was when they began to press into this.  I still have some areas of sin that I’m still struggling over.  I can’t imagine it would be good for the Lord to let me through with that.

Anyway, again, it’s another set of messages with great stories, and very good instruction from Neville.

Part1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj_HW_gLr2M

Part2:

Part3:

So I’ve been listening to and getting a lot of different stuff over the past couple months.  I’ve adding a number of things to what I was starting with and found that I got a little overwhelmed with where I was focused.  Figure it’s a good time to get back to the basics.  I went through and updated my “Journey Steps” page.  It now includes a number of new areas.  Think of it as a condensed list of all the areas of my life that are involved with waiting upon the Lord.  Originally that was the different steps I followed, I sort of turned it into more of an outline of the concepts and steps.  May have to re-do that again later.

But for this post, I’m just thinking about the action items themselves.  Here’s the list of the day-by-day things I feel are so important for me to follow if I’m to keep moving forward here.

  1. Get up early.  Time is my enemy.  My only chance to really find time with the Lord is to get up early, way early.  I really think I can only pull this off through God(original post here).  I’ve found if I cry out to God the night before saying I can only do this through Him, I tend to get the chance to wake up on time, otherwise I’ll probably sleep through my alarm.  I need to make this a habit, I guess starting today since I messed up this morning. =)
  2. Pray my prayer every day, at least twice a day(when I wake up, when I go to sleep).
  3. Start early with praise and worship.  Try to praise until I feel His presence.  In the morning this often takes me 15-20 minutes worth of songs, then I just try to worship a little
  4. Wait upon the Lord, at least for 20 minutes a day.  Wait expectantly, with emotion, and hope.
  5. Meditate on the Word.  Each morning I want a scripture to meditate on during my quiet time, but also through the day.  Either try to memorize, or memorize and quote.  The idea is to at least get one bit of revelation each day.
  6. Holiness is not an option.  If I fail, I repent immediately.  If I choose, I choose God.  Without holiness it’s impossible to see God.  Sin must be thrown off.
  7. Fast – At least once a week fast for at least a meal.  At first I’m focusing on breaking habitual sins, we’ll see where we go from there.
  8. Practice His presence – Consecrate my mind to Him.  Don’t daydream about other things, try to stay in His presence and visualize Him throughout the day.
  9. Pray in tongues – Spend some time in the morning, but also just randomly through the day.  Use to keep in a prayerful state.
  10. Intercession – Take time to intercede, crying out to God for things.  Whether that’s for this journey, or for others.

The Call

So I’m starting with a disclaimer.  I just want to say I am a nobody.  No seriously, I’m not talking “blessed are the poor in spirit” I’m nobody, but I am literally a nobody.  I am not a missionary, or a pastor, or a teacher, or any number of “valid” ministry professions.  I have not had any big God moments to validate my words.  Signs and wonders do not follow me.  I work as a computer programmer, and have a lot of thoughts and feelings about the Lord.  So, whenever I make any claims on here, or any big points, take it with a grain of salt.  If I were a pastor or teacher, I would say the same thing.  Run it through your spirit, see what that says.  Hold it up to the Word.  If it doesn’t resonate, leave it, but if it burns a fire in you, then take hold like I do.

Disclaimer aside, I want to talk about our call.  We are getting close to the end.  If you listen to any of the real prophets of our time, it’s right upon us.  No longer does it seem to be measure in generators or even decades, but possibly years.  I hear similar messages everywhere I turn, God is about to move, there’s a big harvest coming in.  Personally, I think walking with the Lord is a huge part of this.  God’s end-time army is going to do exploits that eclipse the early apostles(I wouldn’t believe it if it weren’t in scriptures).  The only way I see this done is for them to be so sold out, so completely given over, that they say as Jesus did “I do only what I see the Father doing”.  I believe this will need to walk with Angels, Saints, and the Lord himself.  It’s only in this sort of walk that they can do what needs to be done.   God has kept his remnant of those who walk like this.  I hear mostly from Neville Johnson and Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, but I’m sure there are hundreds, thousands, perhaps millions of others hidden all over.

What I see is that this new army coming will need to learn this, and quickly.  There are not enough people walking in this, who can teach them, so God is raising up people to prepare for this.  The forerunners and pioneers are already out there, but the next generation to follow their steps is coming in.  That group will then be able to bring even more people to this point, and it will escalate.  That is where we are at.  This is not a statement of self-grandeur, but of opportunity.  Opportunity to get involved in a new level with the Lord, to serve and please Him, to make a difference in this coming battle.

I wonder how much this relates to the eagles in Rick Joyner’s book the Final Quest?  Remember those soldiers who would find the hidden doors and step out of the battle.  They would go down and spend time in the deep places, only to come out of the top of the mountain.  Some as eagles(usually considered prophets), can’t remember if they all were.  I can’t help but think this is the call for some people.  To actually step aside from some of the battle to draw deeper into God.  To seek that relationship and walk with Him that will lead them to find Him always at their side, to find His perfect will and walk only in that.  It’s not a glorious call, at least, not for any given amount of time.  It’s like an intercessor, you spend this time, sacrifice so much, and get no recognition from the world.  In fact, churches will often criticize because they see it as a waste, better to spend your time in their programs than in waiting upon the Lord.  And if my road is a similar road, it’s also devoid of recognition from the spiritual realm for a while as well.  Perhaps this is because the enemy is so against it.  As soon as you start to push, they attack and attempt to block you off.  You find yourself not seeming to make any ground for days,months, or years.

Yet I still feel the call.  The call to wait upon the Lord, to minister to Him.  To come to that place of relationship where I can interact and speak with Him.  It’s not necessarily a call to prophetic, to pastoring, etc.  It’s not a gift or ministry.  It’s a call to servitude, ministry, and perhaps most importantly, friendship.

This goes along with my last post on fasting.  I’ve continued to get this impression that our normal Christian lives are anything but normal.  That our doctrines we’ve created to explain how we hear and see God are just things we make up to feel comfortable.  I hear people(including myself) talk about hearing God, and it’s almost like reading tea leaves.  Open this door, close that, give me peace, I feel like, I just feel led, it goes on and on.  So few people can say, “The Lord spoke to me face to face and told me”.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.  How to explain.  It’s one of those way-down-deep feelings that I just can’t get into words.

What I do know is that we’re afraid to try.  We’re afraid to bring a question to God and wait for an answer.  Sure we’ll pray for it 5 minutes here or there for a couple weeks, we’ll give a vague impression that something might help(which could also be indigestion from that hot dog at lunch), and move on.  Was that how the apostles seemed to work in Acts?  No.  You see, I think we’re terrified that we may put it on God, and He doesn’t come through.  It’s like praying for healing.  We’re scared cause if it doesn’t happen, we don’t know if our faith will hold up under it.  We scared to actually follow some of the scriptures, not get an answer, and then have to live with the doubts it creates.

Instead, I should take this desire to see God to the Lord day and night.  I should wait upon him every day, I should find any free moment and use it to cry out to Him.  I should get up early and weep from the desire.  I should fast and take time off work to bring it before Him in petition.  I should not let it go silent until an answer comes.  Perhaps the answer is a sin I need to fix.  I fix it, then bring it back.  Perhaps the answer is even no for some reason, but I should not stop until I have that answer.  Until the Lord speaks.  That’s what the scripts say.  Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.  Those verbs are all a tense where it’s really saying something like “ask and keep on asking”, “seek and keep on seeking”, etc.

This is what my spirit seems to be crying out for.  Take my next issue, sin, desire, and assault heaven.  “The kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force”.  I should bring it to God and continue until He answers.  I have a funny feeling the first couple times may take a long time, because I have a lot of junk to work through.  But I would hope as I clear things up, that I begin to hear the Lord quicker, for I feel like He’s often answering, and I’m just rarely hearing.

Do I have the desire to do this, to throw everything else out for seeking after God?  I just don’t know, but what I do know is that unless it becomes everything, I don’t think it’ll work.  But if it does…. it changes everything.